Antony

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Jason
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JoelfuckingGlazer wrote: 10 months ago I think there's an importance, contextual difference to the Greenwood situation. With Greenwood, there was 'evidence' that very clearly linked him to something apparently unsavory (the audio). In the case of Antony, I think its right that he be considered innocent till proven guilty. The legal process should be allowed to run.
I agree, it's totally different. You can't just suspend a player before any investigation is even started.

If he's guilty fuck him out. But until then, you have to operate innocent until proven otherwise.

But these days, its more trial by social media first.
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dozer
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Now a 3rd woman has accused Antony of assault.
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swampash
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Been traveling, so I’ve missed all this. Are these UK cases?
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Felwin
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Can't be fucked with going through another Greenwood mess again. Suspend the cunt, take the hit. More important things than how much we paid. If we are to regain any sort of credibility, these are the steps we need to be taking.
Fuck the Glazers
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There is evidence including photos, like with Greenwood. It's all over Brazil media and now here.

You may have missed it but the club invited a convicted nonce as a guest of honour the other week

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... a-27669482

Fold the club tbf. The incompetence is wild, departments don't talk, no cunt has a clue...
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JoelfuckingGlazer
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Fuck the Glazers wrote: 10 months ago There is evidence including photos, like with Greenwood. It's all over Brazil media and now here.

You may have missed it but the club invited a convicted nonce as a guest of honour the other week

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... a-27669482

Fold the club tbf. The incompetence is wild, departments don't talk, no cunt has a clue...
The Konopka thing is fucked up. The club is done.

On Antony, I'm still of the view that unless charges are brought, he shouldn't be suspended. And that's in no way a defence of him or to diminish the seriousness of domestic violence. The photos I've seen apparently show an injury, they're not demonstrably evidence that he caused it. I'm not in any way saying this is the case here, but malicious allegations are made all the time, especially against high profile people. The presumption of innocence is a key facet of any legal system or basis for social order. Without it, and an allegation alone becomes enough to condemn/suspend someone, it'll be a very, very slippery slope that will cause untold damage.
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Felwin
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JoelfuckingGlazer wrote: 10 months ago The Konopka thing is fucked up. The club is done.

On Antony, I'm still of the view that unless charges are brought, he shouldn't be suspended. And that's in no way a defence of him or to diminish the seriousness of domestic violence. The photos I've seen apparently show an injury, they're not demonstrably evidence that he caused it. I'm not in any way saying this is the case here, but malicious allegations are made all the time, especially against high profile people. The presumption of innocence is a key facet of any legal system or basis for social order. Without it, and an allegation alone becomes enough to condemn/suspend someone, it'll be a very, very slippery slope that will cause untold damage.
Yeah but you're not assuming guilt, you're just following the guidelines that any normal company would. The reason companies suspend or sack their employees is not because they assume guilt, but because they know the legal process can be drawn out and the entire thing drags their image through the mud regardless of whether the person was guilty or not.

I get that it seems harsh if/when the accused is acquitted but come on, 3 separate cases now. The other option is doing nothing and then it ends up like the Greenwood mess.

Best case scenario is do nothing and Antony is proven not guilty on all counts whilst in the intervening time he plays, him, the club, the team, the brand are under a cloud. Is that best case scenario worth it when you can suspend him and make it his problem to sort out? City suspended Mendy without pay ffs and the same scenario transpired. That's all on Mendy and not the club. If we are to maintain or regain any shred of decency, we need to do the same.
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dozer
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Felwin wrote: 10 months ago
JoelfuckingGlazer wrote: 10 months ago The Konopka thing is fucked up. The club is done.

On Antony, I'm still of the view that unless charges are brought, he shouldn't be suspended. And that's in no way a defence of him or to diminish the seriousness of domestic violence. The photos I've seen apparently show an injury, they're not demonstrably evidence that he caused it. I'm not in any way saying this is the case here, but malicious allegations are made all the time, especially against high profile people. The presumption of innocence is a key facet of any legal system or basis for social order. Without it, and an allegation alone becomes enough to condemn/suspend someone, it'll be a very, very slippery slope that will cause untold damage.
Yeah but you're not assuming guilt, you're just following the guidelines that any normal company would. The reason companies suspend or sack their employees is not because they assume guilt, but because they know the legal process can be drawn out and the entire thing drags their image through the mud regardless of whether the person was guilty or not.

I get that it seems harsh if/when the accused is acquitted but come on, 3 separate cases now. The other option is doing nothing and then it ends up like the Greenwood mess.

Best case scenario is do nothing and Antony is proven not guilty on all counts whilst in the intervening time he plays, him, the club, the team, the brand are under a cloud. Is that best case scenario worth it when you can suspend him and make it his problem to sort out? City suspended Mendy without pay ffs and the same scenario transpired. That's all on Mendy and not the club. If we are to maintain or regain any shred of decency, we need to do the same.
Even if he's suspended it must be for a very short while.
If there are no charges raised very soon then his suspension must be lifted.
Unlike the Greenwood scenario, the evidence dosen't link Antony.
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Felwin
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dozer wrote: 10 months ago
Felwin wrote: 10 months ago
JoelfuckingGlazer wrote: 10 months ago The Konopka thing is fucked up. The club is done.

On Antony, I'm still of the view that unless charges are brought, he shouldn't be suspended. And that's in no way a defence of him or to diminish the seriousness of domestic violence. The photos I've seen apparently show an injury, they're not demonstrably evidence that he caused it. I'm not in any way saying this is the case here, but malicious allegations are made all the time, especially against high profile people. The presumption of innocence is a key facet of any legal system or basis for social order. Without it, and an allegation alone becomes enough to condemn/suspend someone, it'll be a very, very slippery slope that will cause untold damage.
Yeah but you're not assuming guilt, you're just following the guidelines that any normal company would. The reason companies suspend or sack their employees is not because they assume guilt, but because they know the legal process can be drawn out and the entire thing drags their image through the mud regardless of whether the person was guilty or not.

I get that it seems harsh if/when the accused is acquitted but come on, 3 separate cases now. The other option is doing nothing and then it ends up like the Greenwood mess.

Best case scenario is do nothing and Antony is proven not guilty on all counts whilst in the intervening time he plays, him, the club, the team, the brand are under a cloud. Is that best case scenario worth it when you can suspend him and make it his problem to sort out? City suspended Mendy without pay ffs and the same scenario transpired. That's all on Mendy and not the club. If we are to maintain or regain any shred of decency, we need to do the same.
Even if he's suspended it must be for a very short while.
If there are no charges raised very soon then his suspension must be lifted.
Unlike the Greenwood scenario, the evidence dosen't link Antony.
I thought their already were charges? Aren't the GMP investigating?
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JoelfuckingGlazer
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Felwin wrote: 10 months ago
JoelfuckingGlazer wrote: 10 months ago The Konopka thing is fucked up. The club is done.

On Antony, I'm still of the view that unless charges are brought, he shouldn't be suspended. And that's in no way a defence of him or to diminish the seriousness of domestic violence. The photos I've seen apparently show an injury, they're not demonstrably evidence that he caused it. I'm not in any way saying this is the case here, but malicious allegations are made all the time, especially against high profile people. The presumption of innocence is a key facet of any legal system or basis for social order. Without it, and an allegation alone becomes enough to condemn/suspend someone, it'll be a very, very slippery slope that will cause untold damage.
Yeah but you're not assuming guilt, you're just following the guidelines that any normal company would. The reason companies suspend or sack their employees is not because they assume guilt, but because they know the legal process can be drawn out and the entire thing drags their image through the mud regardless of whether the person was guilty or not.

I get that it seems harsh if/when the accused is acquitted but come on, 3 separate cases now. The other option is doing nothing and then it ends up like the Greenwood mess.

Best case scenario is do nothing and Antony is proven not guilty on all counts whilst in the intervening time he plays, him, the club, the team, the brand are under a cloud. Is that best case scenario worth it when you can suspend him and make it his problem to sort out? City suspended Mendy without pay ffs and the same scenario transpired. That's all on Mendy and not the club. If we are to maintain or regain any shred of decency, we need to do the same.
It could very well be a case of where there's smoke, there's fire. And if he's charged he should be suspended. If he's found guilt, he's sacked. But - and again, I'm not being defensive here - there are examples of where an allegation is made by a female against a high profile and wealthy man, other women think 'I'll have a piece of that', a mud starts to be slung with the aim of seeking a payday. I'm massively conscious that this is a sensitive topic so I'm trying to choose my words carefully. Domestic abuse - and the extent to which perpetrators escape justice - is a huge issue. But there are cases of malicious allegations being made too. There has to be a bar - and for me, the bar is being charged. The context on employment law is different because of the profile and levels of money involved.

There is a risk - given the profile of United - that a move to suspend a player on the basis of 'just' allegations but no charges being brought, sets a precedent that could even see instances of malicious allegations being made against other players increasing.
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