Will the Glazers sell?

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swampash wrote: 3 months ago But is it necessarily worse than Newcastle style sportswashing Sid??
No it's probably better. But we shouldn't have to settle for this. It shouldn't be either or. Fan ownership all the way. If one rich individual insists on "owning" the club for their own ego or whatever then we could follow the German model where they sort of sit alongside fans who are guardians. But all this is Maoist Leninist Stalinist fantasy in free market worshopping Britain where everything even the water we drink is for sale.
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Look at the Bernabau's revamp. Incredible. They've built a pitch removal system which will allow them to hold events and not damage the pitch. Great way of earning extra income. Meanwhile Old Trafford is rusting.

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Felwin
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Sid wrote: 3 months ago
swampash wrote: 3 months ago But is it necessarily worse than Newcastle style sportswashing Sid??
No it's probably better. But we shouldn't have to settle for this. It shouldn't be either or. Fan ownership all the way. If one rich individual insists on "owning" the club for their own ego or whatever then we could follow the German model where they sort of sit alongside fans who are guardians. But all this is Maoist Leninist Stalinist fantasy in free market worshopping Britain where everything even the water we drink is for sale.
I agree with you but I'm also realistic. I've lived in Germany for a while and the problem with 50+1 is that it holds back the majority of the clubs because you're talking about attracting "investors" and not "owners". The ego/sportswashing thing will mean that owners will always turn up whereas investors are hard to convince for most clubs. There's definitely a feeling here that German clubs will never be able to compete with those from other nations where rich owners are normal. Bayern are the exception because they have rich fans and good investors.

So yeah, there's no perfect model.
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US private equity firm set to buy Milan

https://www.ft.com/content/146cc390-306 ... 9e7e6c67cb
Fuck the Glazers
Legend
Posts: 7819
Joined: 9 years ago

Felwin wrote: 3 months ago
Sid wrote: 3 months ago
swampash wrote: 3 months ago But is it necessarily worse than Newcastle style sportswashing Sid??
No it's probably better. But we shouldn't have to settle for this. It shouldn't be either or. Fan ownership all the way. If one rich individual insists on "owning" the club for their own ego or whatever then we could follow the German model where they sort of sit alongside fans who are guardians. But all this is Maoist Leninist Stalinist fantasy in free market worshopping Britain where everything even the water we drink is for sale.
I agree with you but I'm also realistic. I've lived in Germany for a while and the problem with 50+1 is that it holds back the majority of the clubs because you're talking about attracting "investors" and not "owners". The ego/sportswashing thing will mean that owners will always turn up whereas investors are hard to convince for most clubs. There's definitely a feeling here that German clubs will never be able to compete with those from other nations where rich owners are normal. Bayern are the exception because they have rich fans and good investors.

So yeah, there's no perfect model.
I don't know, rich owners regularly retard and destroy lots of clubs. And then you get cunts like the Glazers who milk clubs dry. They don't necessarily equal success.

As for German fans wanting rich owners, I can understand fans seeing doped Prem clubs and wanting a bit of it. But I also know Leipzig fans get bottles of piss and dart thrown at them by opposiiton fans cos their clubs is doping via Red Bull. There's also an attitude in Germany that sport has to be fair, and that when you invite external wealth eg state wealth things become unfair - like Prem where City have won the last 4 out of 5 titles. Since we last won the league, 7 of the 9 titles have been won by a doped team. Shite.

As well, Germany do compete. Not just Bayern who are one of the most successful clubs in the world, but Dortmund, Schalke, Union Berlin are the latest to have a go.

The biggest winners though are the fans, right? Don't they get massively subsidised ticket prices and reduced travel costs to get to the games. And of course much better atmospheres and matchday experiences than in the Prem. The Prem is expensive, monopolised and until Klopp & Pep boring and a bit shit despite the mega money.
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Felwin
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Sid wrote: 3 months ago
Felwin wrote: 3 months ago
Sid wrote: 3 months ago
swampash wrote: 3 months ago But is it necessarily worse than Newcastle style sportswashing Sid??
No it's probably better. But we shouldn't have to settle for this. It shouldn't be either or. Fan ownership all the way. If one rich individual insists on "owning" the club for their own ego or whatever then we could follow the German model where they sort of sit alongside fans who are guardians. But all this is Maoist Leninist Stalinist fantasy in free market worshopping Britain where everything even the water we drink is for sale.
I agree with you but I'm also realistic. I've lived in Germany for a while and the problem with 50+1 is that it holds back the majority of the clubs because you're talking about attracting "investors" and not "owners". The ego/sportswashing thing will mean that owners will always turn up whereas investors are hard to convince for most clubs. There's definitely a feeling here that German clubs will never be able to compete with those from other nations where rich owners are normal. Bayern are the exception because they have rich fans and good investors.

So yeah, there's no perfect model.
I don't know, rich owners regularly retard and destroy lots of clubs. And then you get cunts like the Glazers who milk clubs dry. They don't necessarily equal success.

As for German fans wanting rich owners, I can understand fans seeing doped Prem clubs and wanting a bit of it. But I also know Leipzig fans get bottles of piss and dart thrown at them by opposiiton fans cos their clubs is doping via Red Bull. There's also an attitude in Germany that sport has to be fair, and that when you invite external wealth eg state wealth things become unfair - like Prem where City have won the last 4 out of 5 titles. Since we last won the league, 7 of the 9 titles have been won by a doped team. Shite.

As well, Germany do compete. Not just Bayern who are one of the most successful clubs in the world, but Dortmund, Schalke, Union Berlin are the latest to have a go.

The biggest winners though are the fans, right? Don't they get massively subsidised ticket prices and reduced travel costs to get to the games. And of course much better atmospheres and matchday experiences than in the Prem. The Prem is expensive, monopolised and until Klopp & Pep boring and a bit shit despite the mega money.
Just want to be clear, I’m a fan of the German model and you’re spot on that it’s so much better for the fans. I can see pretty much any top flight team for about €20 including travel to the match (within reason).

What I mean is the Germans are slowly getting sick of the prospects for teams other than Bayern at the highest level. Dortmund, Leverkusen and Leipzig have become feeder clubs for the Prem whilst Bayern have just won their 10th in a row. While you’re right that Leipzig fans get abuse for supporting a financially doped club, there’s a growing recognition that it might need more of that sort of ownership to guarantee the Bundesliga staying competitive. The pandemic slammed so many teams much harder on the continent as they’re a lot more reliant on match day income.

Of course they could all adopt the Ajax model like Dortmund already have but it’s a big climb down from having 2-4 teams in the last 8 of the CL every year.

Frankfurt represented a bit of hope last season I guess but they’re more a look at what a well run club can achieve. Their team gets regularly picked apart as well. Union are interesting as well but I’m not sure if you can call these teams “competing”. Schalke just got promoted back to the top league and still look shockingly bad. It really is just Bayern that could trouble the top teams in England and Spain.
Fuck the Glazers
Legend
Posts: 7819
Joined: 9 years ago

Felwin wrote: 3 months ago
Sid wrote: 3 months ago
Felwin wrote: 3 months ago
Sid wrote: 3 months ago
swampash wrote: 3 months ago But is it necessarily worse than Newcastle style sportswashing Sid??
No it's probably better. But we shouldn't have to settle for this. It shouldn't be either or. Fan ownership all the way. If one rich individual insists on "owning" the club for their own ego or whatever then we could follow the German model where they sort of sit alongside fans who are guardians. But all this is Maoist Leninist Stalinist fantasy in free market worshopping Britain where everything even the water we drink is for sale.
I agree with you but I'm also realistic. I've lived in Germany for a while and the problem with 50+1 is that it holds back the majority of the clubs because you're talking about attracting "investors" and not "owners". The ego/sportswashing thing will mean that owners will always turn up whereas investors are hard to convince for most clubs. There's definitely a feeling here that German clubs will never be able to compete with those from other nations where rich owners are normal. Bayern are the exception because they have rich fans and good investors.

So yeah, there's no perfect model.
I don't know, rich owners regularly retard and destroy lots of clubs. And then you get cunts like the Glazers who milk clubs dry. They don't necessarily equal success.

As for German fans wanting rich owners, I can understand fans seeing doped Prem clubs and wanting a bit of it. But I also know Leipzig fans get bottles of piss and dart thrown at them by opposiiton fans cos their clubs is doping via Red Bull. There's also an attitude in Germany that sport has to be fair, and that when you invite external wealth eg state wealth things become unfair - like Prem where City have won the last 4 out of 5 titles. Since we last won the league, 7 of the 9 titles have been won by a doped team. Shite.

As well, Germany do compete. Not just Bayern who are one of the most successful clubs in the world, but Dortmund, Schalke, Union Berlin are the latest to have a go.

The biggest winners though are the fans, right? Don't they get massively subsidised ticket prices and reduced travel costs to get to the games. And of course much better atmospheres and matchday experiences than in the Prem. The Prem is expensive, monopolised and until Klopp & Pep boring and a bit shit despite the mega money.
Just want to be clear, I’m a fan of the German model and you’re spot on that it’s so much better for the fans. I can see pretty much any top flight team for about €20 including travel to the match (within reason).

What I mean is the Germans are slowly getting sick of the prospects for teams other than Bayern at the highest level. Dortmund, Leverkusen and Leipzig have become feeder clubs for the Prem whilst Bayern have just won their 10th in a row. While you’re right that Leipzig fans get abuse for supporting a financially doped club, there’s a growing recognition that it might need more of that sort of ownership to guarantee the Bundesliga staying competitive. The pandemic slammed so many teams much harder on the continent as they’re a lot more reliant on match day income.

Of course they could all adopt the Ajax model like Dortmund already have but it’s a big climb down from having 2-4 teams in the last 8 of the CL every year.

Frankfurt represented a bit of hope last season I guess but they’re more a look at what a well run club can achieve. Their team gets regularly picked apart as well. Union are interesting as well but I’m not sure if you can call these teams “competing”. Schalke just got promoted back to the top league and still look shockingly bad. It really is just Bayern that could trouble the top teams in England and Spain.
Aye, it seems attitudes are maybe changing in Germany then. Be careful what you wished for though. It's only really the doping ownership model that is reliably successful - so successful that it creates a boring monopoly. So that's something to be aware of. Also that there's a chance the chickens come home to roost for them eg war criminal Abramovic, and possibly UAE & Saudis in the future.

UEFA have introduced a spending cap and the Prem are going to follow suit. That may help other leagues become more competitive. The big clubs will still be able to spend fuckloads but smaller Prem clubs may find it harder to poach talent from top teams in other leagues.

Btw I saw this on the guardian earlier. It's relevant to our convo: "I am a Union Berlin fan, and whilst it was quite saddening to see Taiwo Awoniyi go to Nottingham Forest (of all places!), it is pretty funny that their squad has a market value of some €70m less than Bournemouth’s or roughly equal to that of Phil Foden and yet they’re Europa League qualifiers and are beating teams like Leipzig. Long live Union."
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bman2
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Talk that Dubai is interested in buying United. How depressing would that be? City owned by one Emirate, united by the other…
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swampash
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Sad, but these days nothing would surprise me.
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Jason
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62992818

Manchester United announce net loss of £115.5m for 2021-22.

Biggest concern is the debt rose from 420 up to 515 in one season, and with the way interest rates are going this is only going to get worse.

This Glazer fuckers have been in charge for over 15 years, withdrawn hundreds of millions into their own pockets, and the debt is as bad as it ever was, with a grim longer term outlook. If they couldn't get the debt paid off when we had years of record low interest rates, what chance do we have going forward.
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