Erik Ten Hag

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bman2
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I don’t have a good way of regularly watching the games this season, so I haven’t been posting here much. And obviously my tactical observations aren’t worth shit at the moment. But looking at the stats, it seems to me that what the team is missing most is a goalscorer. If we had a forward who was regularly picking up goals, we’d maybe be comfortably top 4 at the moment. What has really knocked ETH back, besides injuries and turmoil at the club, is Rashford going massively off the boil again. As I said, I haven’t been watching the games except for the odd occasion, but the tactical problem ETH seems to be struggling with is trying to get more goals from midfield (because the forwards aren’t scoring), without making the midfield too much of a revolving door for the other team to stroll through. Of course, when the opposition learns not to worry about your forwards, they’re more confident imposing their own game on you too.

Obviously the tactics can be blamed for the lack of goals too, but I’m not talking about having a top striker in top form. Even a decent striker nicking individual goals would make a huge difference, that’s how bad our goals total is.

Anyway, my view of ETH is that he’s a competent manager. I’m not saying he’s the messiah, but I’d stick with him in the short term at least while the rest of the footballing side of things is sorted out. It’s not like there’s some guaranteed winner waiting to take over anyway.
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bman2
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I suppose the best thing ETH could do to improve results in the short term is to go back to counter attacking football in the mould of Ole and Jose. But we don’t have as many quick players up front as we used to (though Hojlund seems quick). And he could end up getting the sack quicker that way if the results aren’t amazing, because then he’s no longer doing what he was hired to do.
Fuck the Glazers
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I think Hag will be sacked - providing we have the money to do so - not long after Ineos come in. The desperation for change will be immediate, and Ineos will want to begin their era with a new manager from the start, so they can build the vision together rather than adapting to Ten Hag's.

It might be an unpopular decision with some but the stats really are glaring. Other big clubs would have acted by now. The tactical flaw is what's done him.
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JoelfuckingGlazer
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Fuck the Glazers wrote: 3 months ago I think Hag will be sacked - providing we have the money to do so - not long after Ineos come in. The desperation for change will be immediate, and Ineos will want to begin their era with a new manager from the start, so they can build the vision together rather than adapting to Ten Hag's.

It might be an unpopular decision with some but the stats really are glaring. Other big clubs would have acted by now. The tactical flaw is what's done him.
I think they’ll go down a different route. I think they want to, and be seen to, take some time to suss him out properly. I think they’ll want to give careful thought as to what direction to go in, and will be loathe change manager mid season. The counter to this, is if they’ve already done their analysis and concluded on who to bring in. And all the talk is of Graham Potter - I really don’t know how I feel about that. Did an awesome job at Brighton, apparently knows the INEOS lot and it’s important that whoever is in post can work comfortably with the structure that’s set up. It went to tits at Chelsea but that club is a circus. And we ain’t getting a top manager until we restore some credibility. Added to which, a change over the coming weeks, would allow the new man to use the rest of the season as a testing ground.

All things considered, I think they’ll leave Hag in post until the summer and focus on getting a new CEO, DoF and Head of Recruitment.
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JoelfuckingGlazer
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bman2 wrote: 3 months ago I don’t have a good way of regularly watching the games this season, so I haven’t been posting here much. And obviously my tactical observations aren’t worth shit at the moment. But looking at the stats, it seems to me that what the team is missing most is a goalscorer. If we had a forward who was regularly picking up goals, we’d maybe be comfortably top 4 at the moment. What has really knocked ETH back, besides injuries and turmoil at the club, is Rashford going massively off the boil again. As I said, I haven’t been watching the games except for the odd occasion, but the tactical problem ETH seems to be struggling with is trying to get more goals from midfield (because the forwards aren’t scoring), without making the midfield too much of a revolving door for the other team to stroll through. Of course, when the opposition learns not to worry about your forwards, they’re more confident imposing their own game on you too.

Obviously the tactics can be blamed for the lack of goals too, but I’m not talking about having a top striker in top form. Even a decent striker nicking individual goals would make a huge difference, that’s how bad our goals total is.

Anyway, my view of ETH is that he’s a competent manager. I’m not saying he’s the messiah, but I’d stick with him in the short term at least while the rest of the footballing side of things is sorted out. It’s not like there’s some guaranteed winner waiting to take over anyway.
Kane would have made a difference. However, we’re lowest in the league for chance creation, and of the few we create, we’re almost the lowest (19th) for converting those chances. It’s the worst of both worlds. Even Luton have scored more goals FFS. That’s not just down to injuries, and the players aren’t THAT bad. Its a systemic and tactical flaw, it has to be.
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Felwin
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JoelfuckingGlazer wrote: 3 months ago
bman2 wrote: 3 months ago I don’t have a good way of regularly watching the games this season, so I haven’t been posting here much. And obviously my tactical observations aren’t worth shit at the moment. But looking at the stats, it seems to me that what the team is missing most is a goalscorer. If we had a forward who was regularly picking up goals, we’d maybe be comfortably top 4 at the moment. What has really knocked ETH back, besides injuries and turmoil at the club, is Rashford going massively off the boil again. As I said, I haven’t been watching the games except for the odd occasion, but the tactical problem ETH seems to be struggling with is trying to get more goals from midfield (because the forwards aren’t scoring), without making the midfield too much of a revolving door for the other team to stroll through. Of course, when the opposition learns not to worry about your forwards, they’re more confident imposing their own game on you too.

Obviously the tactics can be blamed for the lack of goals too, but I’m not talking about having a top striker in top form. Even a decent striker nicking individual goals would make a huge difference, that’s how bad our goals total is.

Anyway, my view of ETH is that he’s a competent manager. I’m not saying he’s the messiah, but I’d stick with him in the short term at least while the rest of the footballing side of things is sorted out. It’s not like there’s some guaranteed winner waiting to take over anyway.
Kane would have made a difference. However, we’re lowest in the league for chance creation, and of the few we create, we’re almost the lowest (19th) for converting those chances. It’s the worst of both worlds. Even Luton have scored more goals FFS. That’s not just down to injuries, and the players aren’t THAT bad. Its a systemic and tactical flaw, it has to be.
And mentality. We've seen what we can do when the players are disciplined and apply themselves. They're all just so inconsistent and easily knocked off their stride.
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JoelfuckingGlazer wrote: 3 months ago
However, where I struggle with him, is in his inability to set in place a playing style that’s clear, and his inability to solve obvious and consistent flaws in our game - which is strange, because unless I’m mis-remembering, I’m sure that a consistent feature of last season is that our 2nd half performances were usually better than the first, which suggests he saw and solved issues at HT. Our set pieces at both ends are awful, McTominay isn’t a United player and making changes to prioritise his inclusion (such as his replacement for Mainoo today) undermine Hag’s judgement. His biggest problem is his transfer performance so far, which has been pretty shocking.

I don’t believe he’s ‘lost the dressing room’, but I can imagine he lacks a level of charisma that all top managers need. I.e. it’s not enough to have not ‘lost’ the players, they need to be inspired to follow and ‘run through brick walls’. Think of Ferguson, Mourinho at his best, Klopp, Pep - different personalities, but you can imagine them, commanding huge respect, with real authority and inspiring in different ways. I’m not sure I see that in Hag. Although, its unrealistic to think we’ll land on a generational genius, so we need to see what takes shape around this new INEOS structure before we look at whether a change is needed.

The rest of the season is going to be shit to watch.
I share the same frustrations as you do re Hag. But then is Hag just doing the best he can with a bunch of cunts that are United players? This quote from Neville sums it up for me:

"All the talk the other night was how much these players are playing for Erik ten Hag. What does this prove after we've seen so far in 50 minutes? That they're not playing for him?

"This almost has nothing to do with Erik ten Hag. From 45 minutes to 45 minutes, they've gone from the sublime to the ridiculous. And now it's the ridiculous."

I’d agree with Nev, these players need to take ownership of how bad we are. You can blame poor coaching, facilities, lack of playing style etc but I don’t think even if we had Klopp and Pep double teaming as manager would get a tune out of this lot.
Fuck the Glazers
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JoelfuckingGlazer wrote: 3 months ago
Fuck the Glazers wrote: 3 months ago I think Hag will be sacked - providing we have the money to do so - not long after Ineos come in. The desperation for change will be immediate, and Ineos will want to begin their era with a new manager from the start, so they can build the vision together rather than adapting to Ten Hag's.

It might be an unpopular decision with some but the stats really are glaring. Other big clubs would have acted by now. The tactical flaw is what's done him.
I think they’ll go down a different route. I think they want to, and be seen to, take some time to suss him out properly. I think they’ll want to give careful thought as to what direction to go in, and will be loathe change manager mid season. The counter to this, is if they’ve already done their analysis and concluded on who to bring in. And all the talk is of Graham Potter - I really don’t know how I feel about that. Did an awesome job at Brighton, apparently knows the INEOS lot and it’s important that whoever is in post can work comfortably with the structure that’s set up. It went to tits at Chelsea but that club is a circus. And we ain’t getting a top manager until we restore some credibility. Added to which, a change over the coming weeks, would allow the new man to use the rest of the season as a testing ground.

All things considered, I think they’ll leave Hag in post until the summer and focus on getting a new CEO, DoF and Head of Recruitment.
While we're on the issue of a new manager... This is somewhat alarming

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dozer
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bman2 wrote: 3 months ago I suppose the best thing ETH could do to improve results in the short term is to go back to counter attacking football in the mould of Ole and Jose. But we don’t have as many quick players up front as we used to (though Hojlund seems quick). And he could end up getting the sack quicker that way if the results aren’t amazing, because then he’s no longer doing what he was hired to do.
Counter attacking football is what Hag plays mate. That's his plan A. He himself says all the time, his goal is to have the team transition from defence to attack immediately. What does that mean? This probably means having the team make ambitious long passes from very deep. And we've seen the team repeatedly attempt to do that but fail at it. Ambitious passes means loss of possession which results in us running back to stop their attack. If we win possession, now the opposition is committed forward and we repeat the process of making ambitious balls forward. Ie counter attacking football.
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bman2
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dozer wrote: 3 months ago
bman2 wrote: 3 months ago I suppose the best thing ETH could do to improve results in the short term is to go back to counter attacking football in the mould of Ole and Jose. But we don’t have as many quick players up front as we used to (though Hojlund seems quick). And he could end up getting the sack quicker that way if the results aren’t amazing, because then he’s no longer doing what he was hired to do.
Counter attacking football is what Hag plays mate. That's his plan A. He himself says all the time, his goal is to have the team transition from defence to attack immediately. What does that mean? This probably means having the team make ambitious long passes from very deep. And we've seen the team repeatedly attempt to do that but fail at it. Ambitious passes means loss of possession which results in us running back to stop their attack. If we win possession, now the opposition is committed forward and we repeat the process of making ambitious balls forward. Ie counter attacking football.
Playing on the counter is a low block. Hag’s talking about a high press. Try learning even the fucking basics instead of banging on about player prices like a muppet on Sky.
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