Mount

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Felwin
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Looks like Mount is out for a few games. It'll be pretty damning if Eriksen comes in and we look instantly better. Reflects badly on Hag and Mount.

Still early days though.
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bman2
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I’m not piling on Mount because it’s early days and nobody else is playing well, but what a shit summer.
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JoelfuckingGlazer
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Far too much unfair focus on Mount. I actually don't think he's done badly. Our 433 with a single holding midfielder is the same tactic Arsenal use. They have Rice holding, with Odegard and Havertz pushing on. But for it to work, you need:
a. your holding midfielder to be bang at it. Casemiro has been poor and looks like he's had a summer and a half.
b. your front 3 need to be on it, occupying the opposition when you have the ball, and pressing as a unit when you lose it. Our front 3 have been absolutely shite.
c. you need to have a high line and plenty of energy in your side. Our defence has been sloppy and disjointed and our overall play looks far too slow.

Mount has been no worse than Havertz, but because Arsenal have won their opening 2 and been better than us (without being great either), no one gives a fuck.

The bigger problems are Casemiro and the front 3. Antony will lose his place once Amad is back but until then, I'd be tempted to play Mount a little wider instead of him, and drop Eriksen in next to Casemiro.
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bman2
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Yeah the system isn’t working at all right now, I I wouldn’t single out Mount either. But it’s worrying that so many supporters have already. I don’t really understand why. If Mount doesn’t do something soon to get some supporters on his side, it’ll be a toxic Fellaini type situation which guarantees a failed transfer.
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Felwin
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My worry so far is that he just hasn't been involved. For a player that is usually in the opposition's face and getting on the ball, it's quite a contrast.

It's almost certainly a specific midfield system thing IMO because Mount and Bruno are pushing on - Eriksen was rarely doing that last season. Casemiro just isn't able to hold on his own. One of the reasons he dives in because otherwise players will run past him like those good old Schneiderlin/Schweinsteiger days.

Not sure Ten Hag is going for the exact same system as Arsenal but the midfield has certainly changed and it's leaving us too open.
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swampash
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Casemiro, at 31, should hopefully still have a good few years in him, so hopefully it's just a summer hangover.
As for system, I'm not sure ten Hag really has a fixed system - unless maximum flexibility is a system...?
An eternal optimist I'm still hoping we'll get it together pretty soon.
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dozer
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swampash wrote: 6 months ago Casemiro, at 31, should hopefully still have a good few years in him, so hopefully it's just a summer hangover.
As for system, I'm not sure ten Hag really has a fixed system - unless maximum flexibility is a system...?
An eternal optimist I'm still hoping we'll get it together pretty soon.
Wasn't that the primary complaint of Ole here? That he has no system?
ETH said his system is to transition from defence to attack as quickly as possible and we can see that because he encourages the team to play Bruno like adventurous passes even by our defenders.
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swampash
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dozer wrote: 6 months ago
swampash wrote: 6 months ago Casemiro, at 31, should hopefully still have a good few years in him, so hopefully it's just a summer hangover.
As for system, I'm not sure ten Hag really has a fixed system - unless maximum flexibility is a system...?
An eternal optimist I'm still hoping we'll get it together pretty soon.
Wasn't that the primary complaint of Ole here? That he has no system?
ETH said his system is to transition from defence to attack as quickly as possible and we can see that because he encourages the team to play Bruno like adventurous passes even by our defenders.
Wumming again dozer?
You left out the key word 'fixed'. But then misquoting isn't exactly a stranger to you when you're wumming, is it?
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bman2
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My reading of it is that ETH is trying to implement a Klopp-style system of pressing high up the pitch. It helped Liverpool get competitive again on a relatively modest budget (compared to the likes of Cuty, United, and Chelsea). But where Liverpool was quite cunning at buying and selling players once Klopp came on board (think how much shifting Coutinho for a huge sum helped them), United is hopeless there.

When Klopp’s pressing system doesn’t work it looks ugly, and that’s what we’ve seen these two recent games with United. When the system isn’t working, you get players like Casemiro and Mount left with an impossible task or trying to cover too much turf and too many opposition players. Basically, with this kind of system, I think you either play well or you play shit. You’re less dependent on individual performances, but instead of individual failures you get systemic failures.
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JoelfuckingGlazer
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bman2 wrote: 6 months ago My reading of it is that ETH is trying to implement a Klopp-style system of pressing high up the pitch. It helped Liverpool get competitive again on a relatively modest budget (compared to the likes of Cuty, United, and Chelsea). But where Liverpool was quite cunning at buying and selling players once Klopp came on board (think how much shifting Coutinho for a huge sum helped them), United is hopeless there.

When Klopp’s pressing system doesn’t work it looks ugly, and that’s what we’ve seen these two recent games with United. When the system isn’t working, you get players like Casemiro and Mount left with an impossible task or trying to cover too much turf and too many opposition players. Basically, with this kind of system, I think you either play well or you play shit. You’re less dependent on individual performances, but instead of individual failures you get systemic failures.
I agree. But for it to work you need an aggressive front 3 and very high energy midfield. We have neither. Mount and Bruno are mobile, but Casemiro and Eriksen aren't, and Rashford never looks arsed about pressing. Apparently Hojlund is known for his pressing which might help.
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